Comments for Going Against The Grain http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org Provoking Believers To Think Outside The Confines Of Religion Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:49:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 Comment on Ephesians 4:22 That Ye Put Off Concerning the Former Conversation the Old Man by Alveena http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/ephesians-422-that-ye-put-off-concerning-the-former-conversation-the-old-man/#comment-288 Alveena Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:49:40 +0000 http://goingagainstthegrain.org/?p=5777#comment-288 I think some of you missed my ponits completely. Come under MY roof whose church are we talking about? What was spiritually wrong with saying Lord, I am not worthy to receive You ? That was right to the point. We are sinners and thus we are not worthy of any of the love and blessings our Lord grants us. It is through His Son Jesus Christ that we stand before our Father forgiven of our sins. This is basic Christianity 101. We are not in any way worthy of God's love. Saying instead that we are not worthy that God should come under our roof while we are in church is not only weird, but also sounds like we are elevating ourselves to a status equal to or just under God. As a child, I was always taught and rightly so, that the church is God's house. By saying under my roof or anything like that, it sounds as if we are stealing away God's presence in our church building. It also neglects to remind us that we are sinners. We are going from saying I am not worthy to receive You (due to sin and impurity) to a level of talking about a building. As for the Creed in first-person if I am sitting in my room quietly in prayer and want to focus on MY personal faith or am sharing that faith with another person, I can easily say I believe. If we are gathered as a COMMUNITY of believers, then it sounds like my brothers and sisters in Christ are being ignored I believe OR we [all] believe ? I cannot make this argument easier than this. I think some of you missed my ponits completely. Come under MY roof whose church are we talking about? What was spiritually wrong with saying Lord, I am not worthy to receive You ? That was right to the point. We are sinners and thus we are not worthy of any of the love and blessings our Lord grants us. It is through His Son Jesus Christ that we stand before our Father forgiven of our sins. This is basic Christianity 101. We are not in any way worthy of God’s love. Saying instead that we are not worthy that God should come under our roof while we are in church is not only weird, but also sounds like we are elevating ourselves to a status equal to or just under God. As a child, I was always taught and rightly so, that the church is God’s house. By saying under my roof or anything like that, it sounds as if we are stealing away God’s presence in our church building. It also neglects to remind us that we are sinners. We are going from saying I am not worthy to receive You (due to sin and impurity) to a level of talking about a building. As for the Creed in first-person if I am sitting in my room quietly in prayer and want to focus on MY personal faith or am sharing that faith with another person, I can easily say I believe. If we are gathered as a COMMUNITY of believers, then it sounds like my brothers and sisters in Christ are being ignored I believe OR we [all] believe ? I cannot make this argument easier than this.

]]> Comment on The Illusion of Knowledge by Daryl http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/the-illusion-of-knowledge/#comment-287 Daryl Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:34:01 +0000 http://goingagainstthegrain.org/?p=5955#comment-287 Only Paul Simon could make this great existential laemnt out of Getting Ready For The Christmas Day!! My new favorite. Cried first two times I heard it Only Paul Simon could make this great existential laemnt out of Getting Ready For The Christmas Day!! My new favorite. Cried first two times I heard it

]]> Comment on Leaving the church by nlewis http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/leaving-the-church/#comment-280 nlewis Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:27:03 +0000 http://goingagainstthegrain.org/?p=1112#comment-280 Thank you for your comments and visiting GoingAgagistTheGrain.org. I totally agree with much of what you said, especially in the last sentence..."God still has real churches with real congregations fighting hard to keep the faith..." The problem I have experienced is that many people or church members who are in congregations that value tradition, programs and questionable practices are too afraid to leave and join themselves to a 'real church with a real congregation'. Why would they leave? I could name many legitimate reasons but, the fact will still remain that many believers are damaged and they are left with memory of that bad experience. Sure, you forgive and what makes it difficult to forget are the constant reminders of the something. I have the deepest respect for church leadership to the point I will remove myself when I am asked or compelled to do something that’s simply not right. Unfortunately many leaders in this great institution feel you should go along with the program and be obedient because this is how it’s been done before I was born. I am all for fellowship with the body of Christ, but if their comes a time in a believers walk, where they must decide to fellowship elsewhere because their growth is stagnated and they become the object of malicious gossip where it nearly destroys the family of that believer, that believer should "leave that place" and seek a place where true worshipers of Jesus Christ congregate. Yes, I believe God did intend to "establish the church under leadership and organization" but there are in fact leaders, who are more concerned with the numbers in the pews and the offering plate than with the souls of men and many of those under such leadership emulate that leader. I served faithfully in the C.O.G.I.C for more than 10 years only to learn you don't go against the grain asking questions that seem to challenge the churches tradition, a practice or method of doing things. Never was I disrespectful, nor did I ever challenge leadership in the presence of the laity, but what I realized was I had to remove myself to keep my family and sanity intact. Fellowship with the body of Christ is essential for spiritual growth, the enemy did not cause me to have a bad experience, my decision to stay and humble myself came at a great cost. I don't believe in blaming the devil for everything . I can take ownership of my issues my decisions and short comings. One cannot explain away that facts and experiences of believers who are sitting in pews today, afraid to speak up, afraid to ask questions and afraid to seek fellowship elsewhere because they've been taught to not speak of it, just pray about it. I’m glad I got out when I did and what I realized was this: I did not leave the church nor did I leave the Body of Christ, I simply chose another place to congregate, to fellowship, to worship. Many others in a similar situation will need to find the courage to leave and join their selves to a place where the people truly love God and love people, this they will know because they see the brethren (and the sisters) have love without dissimulation. Dissimulation - the act of deceiving • deception, dissembling, deceit • falsification, misrepresentation - a willful perversion of facts • fakery - the act of faking (or the product of faking) • indirection - deceitful action that is not straightforward; "he could see through the indirections of diplomats" • chicanery, wile, shenanigan, trickery, guile, chicane - the use of tricks to deceive someone (usually to extract money from them) • double-dealing, duplicity - acting in bad faith; deception by pretending to entertain one set of intentions while acting under the influence of another • cheating, cheat - a deception for profit to yourself • head game, illusion, delusion - the act of deluding; deception by creating illusory ideas • pretending, pretense, feigning, simulation, pretence - the act of giving a false appearance; "his conformity was only pretending" • imposture, impersonation - pretending to be another person • obscurantism - a deliberate act intended to make something obscure • four flush, bluff - the act of bluffing in poker; deception by a false show of confidence in the strength of your cards • take-in - the act of taking in as by fooling or cheating or swindling someone Thank you for your comments and visiting GoingAgagistTheGrain.org. I totally agree with much of what you said, especially in the last sentence…”God still has real churches with real congregations fighting hard to keep the faith…” The problem I have experienced is that many people or church members who are in congregations that value tradition, programs and questionable practices are too afraid to leave and join themselves to a ‘real church with a real congregation’. Why would they leave? I could name many legitimate reasons but, the fact will still remain that many believers are damaged and they are left with memory of that bad experience. Sure, you forgive and what makes it difficult to forget are the constant reminders of the something. I have the deepest respect for church leadership to the point I will remove myself when I am asked or compelled to do something that’s simply not right. Unfortunately many leaders in this great institution feel you should go along with the program and be obedient because this is how it’s been done before I was born.
I am all for fellowship with the body of Christ, but if their comes a time in a believers walk, where they must decide to fellowship elsewhere because their growth is stagnated and they become the object of malicious gossip where it nearly destroys the family of that believer, that believer should “leave that place” and seek a place where true worshipers of Jesus Christ congregate.
Yes, I believe God did intend to “establish the church under leadership and organization” but there are in fact leaders, who are more concerned with the numbers in the pews and the offering plate than with the souls of men and many of those under such leadership emulate that leader. I served faithfully in the C.O.G.I.C for more than 10 years only to learn you don’t go against the grain asking questions that seem to challenge the churches tradition, a practice or method of doing things. Never was I disrespectful, nor did I ever challenge leadership in the presence of the laity, but what I realized was I had to remove myself to keep my family and sanity intact.
Fellowship with the body of Christ is essential for spiritual growth, the enemy did not cause me to have a bad experience, my decision to stay and humble myself came at a great cost. I don’t believe in blaming the devil for everything . I can take ownership of my issues my decisions and short comings. One cannot explain away that facts and experiences of believers who are sitting in pews today, afraid to speak up, afraid to ask questions and afraid to seek fellowship elsewhere because they’ve been taught to not speak of it, just pray about it. I’m glad I got out when I did and what I realized was this:
I did not leave the church nor did I leave the Body of Christ, I simply chose another place to congregate, to fellowship, to worship. Many others in a similar situation will need to find the courage to leave and join their selves to a place where the people truly love God and love people, this they will know because they see the brethren (and the sisters) have love without dissimulation.

Dissimulation – the act of deceiving
• deception, dissembling, deceit
• falsification, misrepresentation – a willful perversion of facts
• fakery – the act of faking (or the product of faking)
• indirection – deceitful action that is not straightforward; “he could see through the indirections of diplomats”
• chicanery, wile, shenanigan, trickery, guile, chicane – the use of tricks to deceive someone (usually to extract money from them)
• double-dealing, duplicity – acting in bad faith; deception by pretending to entertain one set of intentions while acting under the influence of another
• cheating, cheat – a deception for profit to yourself
• head game, illusion, delusion – the act of deluding; deception by creating illusory ideas
• pretending, pretense, feigning, simulation, pretence – the act of giving a false appearance; “his conformity was only pretending”
• imposture, impersonation – pretending to be another person
• obscurantism – a deliberate act intended to make something obscure
• four flush, bluff – the act of bluffing in poker; deception by a false show of confidence in the strength of your cards
• take-in – the act of taking in as by fooling or cheating or swindling someone

]]> Comment on Leaving the church by Gary L. Cordon Sr http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/leaving-the-church/#comment-279 Gary L. Cordon Sr Mon, 12 Mar 2012 06:49:19 +0000 http://goingagainstthegrain.org/?p=1112#comment-279 Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, so that they can do this with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:7, 17 HCSB) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47 KJV) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV) For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: (1 Thessalonians 2:14 KJV) These are just a few verses that show that God intended to establish the church under leadership and organization. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. The whole building, being put together by Him, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord. You also are being built together for God's dwelling in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:18-22 HCSB) The church has many attacks against it, inside and out. Many times the enemy causes people to have bad experiences in a church congregation or two, and those experiences 'damage' their views of the real church. God still has real churches with real congregations fighting hard to keep the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Please don't condemn all because of some... Remember your leaders who have spoken God’s word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith. Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, so that they can do this with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. (Hebrews 13:7, 17 HCSB)

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:47 KJV)

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: (1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV)

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: (1 Thessalonians 2:14 KJV)

These are just a few verses that show that God intended to establish the church under leadership and organization.

For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone. The whole building, being put together by Him, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord. You also are being built together for God’s dwelling in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:18-22 HCSB)

The church has many attacks against it, inside and out. Many times the enemy causes people to have bad experiences in a church congregation or two, and those experiences ‘damage’ their views of the real church. God still has real churches with real congregations fighting hard to keep the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

Please don’t condemn all because of some…

]]> Comment on Things to consider before speaking your mind. by Cynthia http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/things-to-consider-before-speaking-your-mind/#comment-278 Cynthia Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:42:02 +0000 http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/?p=7092#comment-278 Yes, your blog is on point. So many times wordsthat have been said by another person, you have over heard or said or thought to yourself. Can be so emotionally damaging and long lasting. Telling a child or anyone for that matter that they are worthless or won't mount to nothing is very harsh. There has to be something positive somewhere To say. You scripture will definitely help the person or persons that have read this blog. Yes, your blog is on point. So many times wordsthat have been said by another person, you have over heard or said or thought to yourself. Can be so emotionally damaging and long lasting. Telling a child or anyone for that matter that they are worthless or won’t mount to nothing is very harsh.
There has to be something positive somewhere To say.

You scripture will definitely help the person or persons that have read this blog.

]]> Comment on Going back to church, what I’m not looking forward to. by Cynthia http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/going-back-to-church-what-im-not-looking-forward-to/#comment-277 Cynthia Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:42:18 +0000 http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/?p=7126#comment-277 This was a good article. People are so traditionalize that can't see the really vision of worship and fellowship. Sure there are a lot choose that do the stand up, fight, fight but then there are those church that are true to the word and the people. We sift through until we find that one church. "we are the church" people still don't know what this means. Whether you worship God in a building or on the back porch you are the church. But, they are displaying is we need people and organizations to function. Tell me what's in the bible because I'm not going fight what told me. You are the Pastor. They say reading is fundamental but we rarely use it when it come to the bible (reading it for ourselves). So going back to church would not necessarily but to be with the people but to be replenished, filled up or be fed. We have to eat the meat and throw away the bone. This was a good article. People are so traditionalize that can’t see the really vision of worship and fellowship. Sure there are a lot choose that do the stand up, fight, fight but then there are those church that are true to the word and the people. We sift through until we find that one church. “we are the church” people still don’t know what this means. Whether you worship God in a building or on the back porch you are the church. But, they are displaying is we need people and organizations to function. Tell me what’s in the bible because I’m not going fight what told me. You are the Pastor.

They say reading is fundamental but we rarely use it when it come to the bible (reading it for ourselves).

So going back to church would not necessarily but to be with the people but to be replenished, filled up or be fed. We have to eat the meat and throw away the bone.

]]> Comment on Break Free From Your Churches Tradition – Leave That Place! by nlewis http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/break-free-from-your-churches-tradition-leave-that-place/#comment-272 nlewis Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:54:07 +0000 http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/?p=7064#comment-272 I totally agree! Thanks for reading and for your reply. I totally agree! Thanks for reading and for your reply.

]]> Comment on Break Free From Your Churches Tradition – Leave That Place! by Herbert Peters http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/break-free-from-your-churches-tradition-leave-that-place/#comment-271 Herbert Peters Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:04:02 +0000 http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/?p=7064#comment-271 As long as people don't know how to connect events that happen around them; as long as people don't learn how to think and create ideas - 1. Formation of new ideas ‘to solve problems’. “The whole of our thinking, the whole of our education, and the whole of western culture is concerned about the formation and communication of ideas,” Edward De Bono in Mechanisms of the mind; as long as people don't learn how to connect sentences using development methods - masses are at the mercy of Mass media, Religion and Political rhetoric. As long as people don’t know how to connect events that happen around them; as long as people don’t learn how to think and create ideas – 1. Formation of new ideas ‘to solve problems’. “The whole of our thinking, the whole of our education, and the whole of western culture is concerned about the formation and communication of ideas,” Edward De Bono in Mechanisms of the mind;
as long as people don’t learn how to connect sentences using development methods – masses are at the mercy of Mass media, Religion and Political rhetoric.

]]> Comment on There is no way I’m missing church! by Bradley http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/there-is-no-way-im-missing-church/#comment-269 Bradley Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:30:52 +0000 http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/?p=7023#comment-269 Awesome post. I understand. The pastor does not run every aspect of your life. The pastor is just a church administrator who gives the word and sets order. Awesome post. I understand. The pastor does not run every aspect of your life. The pastor is just a church administrator who gives the word and sets order.

]]> Comment on 6 ways to increase church attendance. by jack http://GoingAgainstTheGrain.org/6-ways-to-increase-church-attendance/#comment-268 jack Wed, 26 Oct 2011 23:37:43 +0000 http://goingagainstthegrain.org/?p=2304#comment-268 And yet as a nomadic attender of Western Evangelical Christian churches, I see all manner of things that attract people. Mostly, it's the rock concerts complete with strobe lights and smoke machines, but not all of them. And yet as a nomadic attender of Western Evangelical Christian churches, I see all manner of things that attract people. Mostly, it’s the rock concerts complete with strobe lights and smoke machines, but not all of them.

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